19: Former DHH Student Turned TOD with Knar Marashian
Guest interview with Knar Marashian. Knar and I discuss how her personal experiences as a student receiving TOD services impact her now as a Teacher of the Deaf! We touch on accepting hearing loss, listening fatigue, and more!
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transcript episode 19: former dhh student turned tod with knar marashian
D: Hello and welcome to the TOD POD, a podcast to support itinerant teachers of the deaf and hard of hearing, SLPs and other deaf education professionals. I'm Deanna Barlow from Listening Fun and today we have our guest, Knar Marashian. Knar has a really unique perspective to share because she is a person with hearing loss who received TOD services in school and then went on to become a TOD herself. We actually work for the same district, that's how we know each other. So Knar thank you so much for being here today!
K: Alright, thank you so much I'm excited to be here and thank you for inviting me!
D: Can you tell us a little bit about yourself?
K: I have a profound hearing loss and I wear one cochlear implant. At the time that I was born, there was no newborn hearing screening mandate. So my family didn't know that I couldn't hear. So my parents found out that I had a severe to profound hearing loss when I was a year old and I received my hearing aids at the same age. They worked for a little bit, but then my hearing loss started progressing a little bit more and my parents made the decision to get me a cochlear implant when I was almost 3. And at the time they were only doing one CI versus two so I only got one implant.
D: Yeah, it's crazy how much that's changed over the years.
K: So I attended summit speech school, which has an infant and preschool program and then I was mainstreamed with TOD support. In college I studied Deaf Ed and I have been working as a TOD ever since.
D: Alright, so I really want to talk about your like school age years with your TOD because I think now that you're a TOD yourself like you can reflect back on it in an interesting way. Do you remember some of the things you worked on with your TOD when you were in school getting that support?
K: So I think it really depended on like which grade level I was in but I remember generally we worked on various things like academic support. So if I needed some pre-teaching or reteaching they would pull me out as needed. We also worked on self-advocacy so just making sure I understood my equipment and how to use it like the different parts, how to mute, unmute. We also worked on reviewing advocacy in terms of like going to college, looking for the accommodations, finding information about each school's Disability Center maybe different things that I could use when I go to college.
D: Is there anything they did that stood out to you as like particularly helpful?
K: I think when I was younger pullout wasn't as much of a big thing as it is now. Like they would pull but it was just really as needed like they would go into the classroom see what was going on how I was doing in the classroom academically, if there was anything that I really needed to be supported more on they would pull me out and then focus more on academic things. Like I don't remember self advocacy being like a huge part of my pullout sessions when I was younger I think it was more integrated as needed.
D: Interesting and did you feel like that was helpful for you?
K: I think it would have been helpful to like have more self-advocacy integrated into those sessions but I don't think it harmed me either...
D: Yeah mhmm [laughs] got it.
K: I think it was just the nature of how like itinerant was set up back then. And now because I think now there's a big focus on pullout support. So I know when I was in high school I got pulled out more actually...
D: Oh interesting...
K: ...for self-advocacy and to work on different things like I remember my TODs would talk about seating in the classroom because high school classrooms were bigger. And there were more students. So I remember seating was a really bit focus. They would talk to me about different things I could use in their classroom and asking for close captions, having a notetaker, asking the teacher to repeat. And then I remember the college thing being a really big thing. I think that was the thing that was most helpful that my TOD worked with me on because before I went to college I didn't really have an idea of what to ask for in terms of accommodations and or what to even to look for.
D: Yeah.
K: You know you have to go to each college's website and you have to find the disability office or disability center and find out what they're offering, who to contact, things like that.
D: Yeah I think that's helpful for people to know that like the thing that stuck with you the most was the like helpful transition planning and stuff for high school because I feel like a lot of teachers I talk to are not like super comfortable with that like they like they'll do it, but it's not maybe like their strength. That's why we did that first episode we did all about transition planning. When it comes to your classroom teachers, like just like your regular teachers, do you remember is there any classes or teachers that were like really helpful to you and like what did they do that was helpful? Or were there any classes that were particularly challenging and why were they challenging? Like I always want to know from people who like actually lived it. Like if I could ask the teachers to make changes like what changes?
K: So I think what was most helpful with my classroom teachers when they would wear the microphone and they would ask me if the placement was okay and then I could then give them feedback like no, that you need to lower it or that's perfect or just move your scarf out of the way.
D: I like the idea of telling the teachers that hey you should ask the student if the placement's okay, like don't just assume and don't ask me like ask the person who's listening to it. That's a good little tip.
K: Yeah, and I think what was really helpful was that a lot of them were checking with me to make sure I understood what was going on during the lesson they would ask clarifying questions not just like did you understand, yes or no, like which part of it did you understand? Or what did you hear? So I think those were really helpful. I think just asking me even what else would be helpful in the classroom. I've had a few teachers and even college professors ask me like what else would be helpful. Like what what do I need to know in order to help you in the classroom. So I think that's really nice.
D: Yeah, what do you usually say if they ask if there's anything they can do specifically?
K: I just tell them that you know repeating what other students say really helps, repeating, rephrasing, because I don't always catch questions that they're asking and sometimes it's hard to hear their responses, especially if it's noisy. So I told them that's a really helpful thing. Not so much college but like high school just telling them like oh I need to sit in the front row. So if you were moving seats around just make sure you keep me up in the front.
D: Yeah, the reason I ask is because I feel like at the beginning of the year I give the teachers this like long list of accommodations and I just kind of want to like highlight a couple of them like I know they're all important but I feel like certain ones have more of an impact than others and I'd like to like bring those to the front. But I don't want to just assume that I know what's the best ones you know like I have my guesses for sure, my educated guesses. But anytime I have the opportunity to talk to the high schooler themselves or to like an adult with hearing loss who went through it I think you guys really know like which ones made the biggest impact. So that's what I think, asking for clarification is a really good one, the seating, and obviously using the mic and asking the student for if the placement is good are all super helpful. What made you want to be a teacher the deaf yourself?
K: So I actually didn't know that I wanted to become a teacher. It was something that I started thinking about when I was in high school. And I thought to myself one day like oh I've never actually had a teacher of the deaf who is deaf or hard of hearing themselves. Maybe I should become one.
D: Yeah!
K: And use my experiences as a deaf person to help my students.
D: That's I mean a really good idea! [Laughs]
K: I just think it's really important for students with hearing loss to see adults who also have hearing loss. It's just important for them to feel represented like they can actually see someone who has grown up with hearing loss who has gone through these different challenges like in their lives and that they can still be successful.
D: Do you think your students have been more comfortable with you sharing like different self advocacy things or concerns because they feel like you can understand it?
K: So I feel like it's interesting. I feel like it really depends on the students. Some students I think feel that connection they're like oh my teacher has hearing loss she wears a cochlear implant, that's really cool. She's just like me. And then other students are like okay that's cool, but it's not necessarily like a huge deal for them. I think when I, because I have covered self-advocacy with my students when I covered that in the classroom, I feel like they can make a connection between me sharing my own experiences to what they are experiencing. For example I might share like oh when I was younger I would use these different things in the classroom. It was really helpful if my teacher put closed captions on, it was helpful if they repeated what other students were saying it was helpful if they repeated other student what it was helpful if they repeated what other students were saying. So then I kind of give them those different ideas of like oh this is what I did when I was younger. It was really helpful. You can advocate for yourself in the classroom and you can ask your your teacher for different things. If you notice a video doesn't have those captions, raise your hand, ask the teacher to put the captions on. If you didn't hear what the students said asked them to repeat it. So I think it's just more like when I share what I've done growing up self advocacy wise I'm giving my students different ideas and I think they feel a little bit more comfortable. They're like oh my teacher has done it before I can do it too.
D: Yeah, absolutely I feel like that's a really easy way to like introduce it because you're giving them a specific example and you're not just saying like hey you should do this. It's like no like I do this, you could do this, we can all do this together.
K: Yeah.
D: I can see how that would really make students use strategies more readily, I think. Do you want to hear funny story of how I decided to become a TOD?
K: Sure.
D: Um, we went to same college so I feel like you'll appreciate this I didn't know I want I knew I wanted to work with kids but I didn't know what I wanted to do um so when I went to college actually before I went to college I went to go on a tour of the college and I was on this tour and the tour guide was a deaf education major and she was telling us all about and I was like that sounds so cool and I was like maybe I should do that I didn't go in as a deaf ed major but I kind of had it in like the back of my mind that that was an option. And then I switched during my first semester to Deaf Ed and to this day I have no idea who that tour guide was so like if you were a tour guide at TCNJ just like send me an email because you really set me on a path. [laughs]
K: So actually going off of that. It's funny that you mentioned that when you started at TCNJ you weren't a deaf ed major that was actually the case for me as well I didn't start off as a deaf head major I decided to switch I think in my sophomore year of college.
D: Yeah.
K: So just really felt like it would be a better fit for me and I really wanted to work in deaf ed.
D: Yeah, once I like heard about it I like couldn't stop thinking about it. You know like I like I had never even because people asked me like oh did you have like ah a friend who was deaf or a family member and I'm like no [laugh] like it's not like a sweet story. It's just like I just thought I would... I like the idea of helping people communicate I think that like really resonated with me. Um, and that's kind of how it all happened but it's such like a random story and like to this day I wish I knew who that person was because like I don't know I would be nice.
D: All right back to the actual questions. Let's see, so in school or even now do you experience listening fatigue and what are some of the ways that you deal with it?
K: So I definitely do experience listening fatigue. So growing up I think what would help the most was taking breaks by going to a quiet room or taking off my CI for a short period of time but that would really be mostly at home. So as a teacher I definitely do experience listening fatigue and that can be a little bit more challenging because as a teacher you are on all the time, for lack of a better term. So I think really what helps most is that during the lesson there's always like built in independent time so the students will be working silently for a little bit and I think that gets me an extra moment to just take a breather. Lunch time is a really great time to just take a break from listening. Those are the most helpful ways of dealing with listening fatigue. Of course at work I can't just take I can't just take off my cochlear implant. So there are other strategies I can use to help with listening fatigue.
D: I think that's interesting to keep in mind for our students too like maybe with high school students like we can tell them like hey if you have a quiet point in your day, a study hall, or like during lunch perhaps if you're you know more like a recess kind of situation, and you want to go somewhere quiet to rest like that's something you can ask for. That's something you can do if you feel like you need it. And I think it's helpful to remember that like even adults like struggle with this. So like if an adult is going to struggle with it then like a high schooler can't be expected to do it perfectly either, you know. So I think that's helpful. Can you tell, what does it actually feel like? Does it just feel like being tired or is it like a specific type of tired feeling?
K: I think it's just more of like a mental tiredness. Like your head feels super heavy. It's difficult to concentrate.
D: The closest I've ever felt to like that level of mental tiredness is if like you know if like you learn a second language as an adult and then you have to use that language all day long. By the end of the day like I felt exhausted. Obviously we all learned, we learned ASL in college and we had like uhh, I don't know if it was like a deaf awareness day or something I don't remember but I was like chaperoning a bunch of people who use sign language and I was using sign language all day to get these people around to where they needed to be and by the end of the day. My brain was so fried. Like I wasn't physically tired because I like I was walking around campus but you do that every day it wasn't like a particularly draining day but I remember my brain at like 8:00 being like so tired and I think it's just because I was using not my first language all day and in college I was still learning like I wasn't you know super fluent and it was like it was very mentally draining. So sometimes like that's the example I give but I don't know if that's like perfectly accurate. Would you say that that's like similar?
K: Yeah I would say so. It's just like that feeling of being super drained that even your body feels tired. It's really strange. Like I've had that quite a few times like I think people think like listening fatigue is just like oh I'm a little bit tired but it's like being absolutely drained.
D: Mhmm.
K: I feel like once I'm done listening that day like I have to take a break or else I can't do anything else.
D: Yeah, do you feel like you get more listening fatigue if you're in a louder environment or if you're in like a environment where you're concentrating more or both?
K: I would say both.
D: Okay...
K: The louder environment gets me a lot of listening fatigue. Especially if there's a lot of background noise because even though I'm trying to block out that background noise. My brain is still listening to it. So just listening to it.
D: Right! I feel like just the process of blocking it out is effortful. Yeah.
K: Yes, yeah, it's you're trying to focus on blocking it out and doesn't help so by then I'm like super tired and then other times when I'm trying to concentrate on what someone is saying whether that's in a noisy or in a quiet environment, I find it worse and a noisy environment I get listening fatigue. So I think my brain is so focused on trying to process what they're saying that I get tired easily and then sometimes I even have a harder time remembering what they what they said. I find that interesting like I don't know if a lot of people talk about it and I don't know if I've ever asked my students this but I find that when I'm so focused on trying to understand what someone is saying I become... it makes it more difficult to remember or recall different parts of that conversation and I know it sounds weird but I feel like it happens.
D: No, it doesn't sound weird! I totally understand what you're saying. I one hundred percent. I don't know if you listened to the episode we did on the auditory hierarchy but I went on on like ah like a tangent about how like identifying what someone is saying is different than comprehending what someone is saying and that comprehension takes more energy, and that if you're already drained because you're trying to block out background noise or it's been a long day or whatever then like you might be able to hear them quote unquote but actually like understanding recalling details like you said like becomes a lot harder. And like I'm glad that you brought that up because I feel like that's a nuance to listening fatigue that like you said people don't maybe know about, don't think about. They just feel like it makes you tired but it also impacts like comprehension and remembering information. And I think that TODs should probably stress that to teachers because it's like if you keep your classroom noisy how are your kids going to remember anything you teach them?
K: Yeah I was going to say I think that's why it's so important to keep in mind like different things that will help in the classroom like keeping the doors closed whenever possible, keeping the window shut, limiting any other background noise. I know that's like really challenging in school because there's always so much going on and sometimes you can't always like do those different things. But I think it's just like a really important thing for teachers that keep in mind. I mean I remember even like in high school or in high school mostly like I would just sometimes my teachers weren't always aware of that. I think they were, I shouldn't say that they weren't aware but sometimes I would have to remind them. So I think it was just helpful like when they were like easy going and they would go with the flow of like just me like reminding them and I don't think I've ever had a teacher who got annoyed by me reminding them of different things that I needed.
D: That makes sense because like you're just advocating for yourself and I think most teachers at least in my experience most teachers like want to help, they want to do the right thing. They just like don't remember they have a lot going on. So framing it as and like I'm just helping you remember I'm not telling you what to do is like a helpful framework.
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[MUSIC]
D: Is there anything that you do as a TOD like because of your experience? Like I hated when this happened so I always do it this way. Is there anything like that that you feel like your personal experience really influenced the way you teach?
K: So I would say I think I have more of an awareness of maybe what my students are going through when they're in the classroom because I can I have that perspective of oh I remember what it was like to be their age sitting in the classroom, with a hearing loss, using my hearing devices and like the classroom was noisy or maybe the teacher's not wearing the microphone correctly or this this and this. So it brings me back to my own experiences. So I think then I use my own experiences and I kind of like have a chat with the student.
D: I'm kind of hearing you say like, I think you just have I'm not sure is empathy the right word? Like you can understand from their perspective. So maybe you're a little more patient a little more empathetic in your conversations and like when you speak to them it's coming from a place of like I totally understand why this is happening but let me help you adjust because I can give you some tools to adjust. And I think that what like hearing TODs can take away from that is that sometimes it's easy to give suggestions without first providing maybe like the emotional support that is needed for that moment like understanding why they're doing what they're doing or trying to put yourself in those shoes before you jump into offering strategies.
K: So I feel like from my experiences in teaching so far I feel like it really depends on the student like some students are very comfortable with their hearing loss. They have no problem advocating for themselves and other students are shy and they need like that time to like warm up or they need a lot of like prompting from me to advocate more for themselves. So I can understand both, you know sides, like I can understand what all of my students are going through for the most part like of course I don't know exactly how they're hearing. Each student with hearing loss is different so they might be hearing a little bit differently than someone else, than me, but I have an understanding of like how they're feeling like I can kind of put myself in your in their shoes and like I understand that it's really hard to advocate for yourself. I can remind them tell that that it's really important that you do it because if you don't tell me I won't be able to help you, your teachers won't be able to help you. But I can still put myself in your shoes like I understand it's easier said than done. It's really challenging I think it just takes time for them to be comfortable and I think that's something that I understand so I try not to like push them too much but I try to get them out of their comfort zone a little bit in terms of advocating for themselves.
D: I feel like easier said than done is like my motto [laughs] I feel like I say that all the time. I'm like listen I know I know but I still got to tell you.
K: Yeah, I think it's also really helpful as a person who is deaf and wears an implant like I have that perspective that can help the classroom teachers. And I can explain like oh I've experienced this this and this. This is what was helpful to me when I was growing up. This is something that might be helpful for my student. What I mean is like I think it's easier for classroom teachers to understand where my students are coming from when I explain to them what the student is experiencing from my own perspective. So I think they have that realization like oh if an adult is experiencing these challenges, then this student with hearing loss is also going to experience the same challenges.
D: Yeah I feel like there's something really powerful about like the person being right in front of you explaining like this happened to me like this isn't a theoretical thing that could happen like this is like seriously what the experience is of a person with hearing loss in the classroom and I think that just is probably a lot more... it resonates probably a lot more with teachers during like in-services and things. And I always try to like put really specific examples from my students in in-services like so I'm like this student has said this like these words like so that way it's not just me saying like oh background noise is is challenging. I can have examples from last year in science they were doing labs and this kid couldn't remember this because she was focused on listening so much, like you know what I mean? Like really specific examples because I obviously cannot share personal examples. So in order to help it resonate in the same way I try to like get those really specific examples from the student because when they realize that it's not theoretical, it matters, then sometimes I think that that helps with explaining things to teachers but... Or you could bring in someone like yourself and help with in-service.
Both: [laughs]
D: Want to come do all my in services with me? [laughs] Another thing that I think would be helpful from someone with hearing loss like do you have any advice for TODs who have students who feel embarrassed or ashamed of their hearing loss?
K: I think my main advice if the student is feeling embarrassed or ashamed of their hearing loss or they're hearing devices is to really just acknowledge their feelings. Make them feel understood make them feel heard. But I think it's really like hard to make them accept their hearing loss. I think it's just something that takes time like it just takes time for them to understand and accept it and I would say like don't force it. Like don't tell them like oh you shouldn't feel that way or like you have to wear your hearing devices or else. I think kind of like explaining the different ways that they can cope with it and I think that's why self-advocacy strategies are so important to teach them because we're really with self-advocacy we're teaching them these are ways that you can cope with your hearing loss. These are ways that you can make it easier for you when you're trying to learn in the classroom, when you're trying to hang out with your friends, when you're at home with your family.
D: I feel like kind of what you're saying is that just by being understanding and like receptive adult eventually they'll come to you when they want to talk about it because you've not pushed them in the past and that just by talking about it in like a strategy based way they know that you're a person who can help when they're ready to accept that help.
K: Yeah, and I think it's just I think it's really a matter of taking time like it takes time to accept it because I think as when I was like I'll use myself as an example when I was younger I know once I realize that oh this is what my hearing loss means like this is what it means that I have to wear a cochlear implant because like when I first got it like I didn't understand what it meant like okay, can't hear so I wear a cochlear implant to help me hear. But as I got older I'm like oh well I have to wear it because I can't hear.
D: How old were you when you had that like realization?
K: I think I was maybe 7 or 8, but before then like I wasn't as aware of like yeah I knew that I had a hearing loss. I knew I had a cochlear implant I had to wear to help me hear. But I think I started realizing like oh other people can hear without a hearing aid or a cochlear implant. So why I now I have to wear it too and I think that was a little bit hard for me to accept at first. Like it definitely took a lot of time and I think now I'm more comfortable with myself than I was when I was younger.
D: Yeah I think we all feel that way. [laughs]
K: Yeah definitely. Like it's just so much easier like to advocate for myself now. I I mean, I was good at advocating for myself when I was younger but there were times where I felt awkward. So I can totally understand my students when they feel awkward or like I can see that they're not saying anything in class.
D: Yeah.
K: Speak up for themselves. But that's just something I totally understand I can understand how they feel.
D: I feel like it's interesting that you said that you realized it at like 7 or 8 because like obviously you realized it beforehand but it kind of like hit you at that age that this was like permanent and different and like a thing that was like oh my god like I can't just like not wear this because I have students who are younger than that. Right? Who appear to accept their hearing loss like they don't they're good advocates, they're little so they're doing little kid advocacy you know, but like it's interesting to keep in mind that as they get older even these kids that seem fine right now like they might there might come a day when they like realize that this is a difference and they might have feelings about that that might need to be worked through so just like keep your eye out for that because like obviously I know you like I am not surprised at all that you were a good advocate for yourself in school like [laugh] I feel like people who become teachers tend to be I don't know you know like they they know how to do things. Um, so like you are probably like a good student, a good kid, you followed the rules, like you know like you were probably an easy kid to have on your caseload [laugh]
K: [laugh] Definitely.
D: And like I have kids like that now you know, but it's it's good to keep in mind that even the kids that are quote unquote easy like still might have big feelings about their hearing loss later than you expect. And they still might need that help and I feel like we always advocate to general ed teachers that like some of our kids there like they might just like like they say yes all the time, they they don't they're not behavior issues, but like they might not be understanding everything. Like our kids sometimes can like slip through the cracks academically and I feel like I'm very aware of that and watching for that. But I think it's interesting to remember that even like emotionally and like from an advocacy perspective like the kids that seem like they're doing fine like could also later on have a change of feeling about that and that we should be on the look out, and not look out for that, but just be aware that like at a certain point they might feel differently and that we can support them through that and to just be aware of like that might happen at a different age than you expect. And then okay so my last question for you is since you are a unilateral listener because you have one cochlear implant but a bilateral hearing loss. Do you have any tips or for teachers or for TODs about helping kids with unilateral loss?
K: Okay so mainly my tips for teachers who have students who are unilateral listeners would be to make sure that they are placed on their better side. So in terms of classroom seating, make sure that whichever side they hear better from is facing the majority of the classroom with the majority of the students and that they're able to capture most of what everyone is saying.
D: Have you ever like walked into a class with a unilateral listener and the kid is sitting like in the middle of the room like next to a fan with their hearing aid like right next to a fan and I'm just like ahh! [laughs] Like of all the seats! That's the worst one please move them!
K: Yep I've had that before. [laughs]
D: It's funny because like people like I know some people like prefer the front but I feel like especially unilateral like sometimes a side might be better. Um, it really obviously you have to ask the child what they prefer.
K: It's interesting that you mentioned that a lot of teachers think like oh preferential seating like let's just put you on the front row and we're done. That's great. But you mentioned the side and I think that can also like it really depends on the student like some students need to be in the front sometimes the side is I found I find that the side is helpful because it allows you to gather more of what everyone is saying and then you have a better view of the classroom. Like I know especially if I'm like right in the front row and I think some of my students feel this way like if we're right in the front row sometimes we have to turn around to look at the speaker, see what's happening. Whereas if you're on the side you kind of have that view.
D: Yeah I've had older students like high school students who are very good umm, microphone users prefer to sit in the back row because then they can see who's raising their hand and then they can see who's asking the questions and that like helps them. They'd rather be able to have the visual access of like who is talking because they use their HAT system so consistently. They don't really need to be close to the teacher that they they feel fine being in the back because it gives them more visual access and honestly for me if a high school student can articulate to me that's why they want to sit in the back and that that's what helps them I'm fine with that. The back could be good for you, whatever! But if they if I observe them and they're just like hanging out in the back and not listening then maybe we're going to move them [laughs]
K: Definitely and I think classroom teachers have to keep in mind with unilateral listeners is that location of sound can be really different. Like locating where someone is speaking or where the sound is coming from can be challenging so those unilateral listeners always need an extra moment to to look around visually and process what someone is saying because I do find that there's a delay I've noticed that with myself with my students. There's a delay when they where they have to locate the speaker first before they can start comprehending what they're saying.
D: Yeah.
K: If the speaker keeps going on and on and that student is still trying to locate who is speaking they've already missed half of what was said.
D: Actually I actually have one more question for you because I get asked this a lot. Do you have any suggestions for teachers working with older students? Because I feel like that's the harder age to work with for a lot of people.
K: So I think when working with older students we have to keep in mind that there are different things that we can be working on with them that can help them as they get older and they transition to high school, to college, beyond college. We really want to focus on giving them those skills that are broad but applicable to many different situations. So something that I noticed is really helpful. This is something that I actually did when I was doing my deaf Ed student teaching. So my cooperating teacher and I we actually planned together a lesson on different lessons on IEPs and um and accommodations that we would go over with the students. So I remember this one lesson that we planned it was to review the students IEP and then to talk about different accommodations and modifications in their IEP and then talk about which ones would be the most helpful and I think was such a powerful lesson when I taught that to a few of the students because some of them before that less than they had no idea what their accommodations or modifications were and they were like they're like Wow I can get extended time when I need it? I have preferential seating?
D: Wow.
K: These different accommodations and modifications and I think it's just so powerful because we they don't they might not always know that they can ask for these different things. So I think it's really important that we teach these students like oh these are different strategies or tools that you can use to help you. But kind of giving them that responsibility. As a teacher of the deaf we advocate for a students a lot. But I think it's important to think about like when can we transition them to become more responsible and start advocating for themselves so that they're more aware of their hearing loss. They're more aware of what they need the classroom. So I don't know I just really thought that was like such a powerful lesson because my students were, our students were surprised that they could ask for these different things.
D: Yeah I really like using the IEP itself as part of the lesson like using that as the main material as opposed to like making something because it's like in black and white writing right in front of them of like this is your document like you know like these are your accommodations and going through and I do think highlighting them is helpful because like I've said a lot of times there's quite the list. Um, going through of what's actually helpful I've done a similar lesson before too and it's funny because a lot of kids have like a background understanding that they have accommodations or something you know, but they don't know like specifically what they are and what I noticed is that when I actually bring out the IEP and we go through it together at their IEP meeting, they're much more likely to speak and give input. Because they've seen the document like they know what we're talking about, they have some context, basically pre-teaching for the IEP meeting. But then they can say like yeah that accommodation was really helpful I definitely want that in but can we can we add this, like they actually gave input because they had some understanding of their accommodations like for the first time. And I also think we should, I try to hand off responsibility of advocating for themselves like as early as possible. For some kids I do think it is later especially if they have some maybe unresolved feelings about their hearing loss, I'm going to have to advocate for them in the meantime if they're not ready to do that yet. But I try to teach like even little kids to like talk to like, oh it's too loud? Go tell your teacher. You know what I mean? Like I'll be here I'm right here I'll you know, but like go ahead like go do it Um [laughs]
K: I've definitely done that too.
D: It really depends on the kid but I think it's helpful to remember that like our end goal is not for us to advocate for them. It's for them to advocate for themselves.
K: I definitely agree with you. And I think even just like as TODS, if we notice something going on in that moment with that student, like it's really helpful to make that moment a teachable moment. Like pull them aside and just be like oh I noticed that you didn't feel comfortable advocating for yourself in this situation. Maybe like let's talk about a little bit or like what do you think you could do differently next time, like I've done that a lot with my students especially in the past year. And I coached them liked a little bit, like I need you to go to the teacher and tell them what you need.
D: Yeah I like to do that too like right in the moment and I try to really keep in mind like you were saying before like the child's personality. So like if they're more of like an outgoing student then like right in the moment I'll be like I saw that like go like go tell them you know and then if they're more of an introvert I try to offer them strategies that are a little more discreet because like some kids just like don't want to get up and talk to the teacher in the middle class and like I respect that but I'm like you don't have to do that but during independent work you do have to go talk to them. Or you can send them an email like that's fine. You could email your teacher. And offering them some more like discrete strategies that maybe are more in line with their personality because like I get that I think I'm more on the shyer side like I'm not sure if I would want to do that in the moment so offering them like solutions that are a little more quiet, a little more discreet. Sometimes that's like the trick to getting them to advocate for themselves. It's like you don't have to advocate the same way as everybody else, but you do have to do something eventually. Um, you know as they get older. So I think that's helpful.
D: Alright, thank you so much Knar for being here today and sharing our experiences I really like hearing from other TODs and people with hearing loss because I think it really helps us all be better teachers. As always a full transcript, links and resources will be down in the show notes below and at listentotodpod.com If you have any questions you can DM me on Instagram @ListeningFun or join our TOD community Facebook group to ask any questions. And I'll talk to you next week! Have a great day! Bye!