44: Billie BAHA Author Jessica Hogan on Representation & Self-Advocacy
Jessica talks about the importance of representation in children’s media, self-advocacy activities, and ideas for supporting students with microtia.
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44: Billie BAHA Author Jessica Hogan on Representation & Self-Advocacy
[MUSIC]
D: Hello and welcome to the TOD POD, a podcast to support Itinerant Teachers of the Deaf and Hard of Hearing, SLPs, and other Deaf Education Professionals. I'm Deanna Barlow from Listening Fun and today we're talking with the author of the Billie Baha books Jessica Hogan. Thanks so much for being here today.
J: Thank you for having me so excited to be here.
D: Yeah I'm happy you're here too. Can you tell everyone a little bit about yourself and your background.
J: Yes, my name is Jessica Hogan. I am a Teacher of the Deaf and Hard of Hearing I have worked across various backgrounds but my initial intro into education actually was in the general education setting and I taught middle school and high school. And what kind of got me into Deaf Education was having a lot of students who had different needs and I did not have the tools to be able to support them at all and I ended up going back into school and just falling into Deaf Education. I had no clue about it to be completely honest and I went to this amazing program with Dr. Christina Perigoe and I got to study at Johns Hopkins and work out of a small school in Mississippi and then here I am so...
D: Amazing I had a similar experience where I didn't go into college as a Deaf Ed major but when I got there I realized they had that and I was like that feels like it could be interesting.
Both: [LAUGH]
J: Let me just feel around in there.
D: Yeah, it's kind of funny how ah you know you fall into it. It's not a big field so everyone has kind of a funny story I think of how they got into it.
J: I know and most people I know it's like oh I had a deaf friend or I knew somebody and I had nobody but when I fell into it I felt I found home.
D: Yeah.
J: Like it, it filled up my toolbox and it is allowed me like the opportunity to get back to teaching and not focused on standards and all the overwhelming stuff.
D: Yeah I've always said my favorite part about like itinerant teaching specifically is that it's all individual like you really get to focus one on one and I feel like that's a luxury not a lot of teachers have so I like really love that.
J: Yeah, exactly.
D: What led you to start creating the Billie Baha books then?
J: I guess my biggest push well two, two things I would say. One is my kids and then both at home and then my kids at school, I always conflate the 2 [LAUGH] ah, because they're all mine. My kids at school I'm huge into representation just across the board people need to see themselves. In fact I just had this conversation with my daughter not too long ago that in order to feel empowered to be able to take on the world, you need to see yourself everywhere, in books in media, just every space that you you can encounter and when I'm teaching I didn't have anything for my students. And so what do all teachers do and we don't have something? We make it ourselves! [LAUGH]
D: Yeah.
J: And of course like I wanted my kids to be a part of that process, my kids at home, to be a part of that process as well and so Billie is kind of in the image of my daughters.
D: I love that. I've always heard you know that saying about like books provide, what is it, like windows and mirrors.
J: Yeah!
D: So it's like you want to see yourself. But then you also need to see through to like other other people other stories and stuff.
J: Yeah, other people exactly. Yes.
D: And that's when I first read through yours I was like wow you're covering all your bases like I I love that no because it's nice because I always try when I create resources to have like a lot of representation but I can't get every variable like I have a boy with a hearing aid and then I have a girl with a cochlear implant, and I have like... I try to mix it up so I kind of cover everything. But then I'll get messages and be like can you make this with a girl with red hair with a hearing aid and I'm like no [LAUGH] like I'm sorry but like I can't but I really feel like every, I mean most of the types of hearing loss I've encountered are covered in your Billie BAHA books and that's really nice that all of my kids can see themselves and see others.
J: And that's kind of, and is funny though, because that was one of the things that was talked about in like my schooling was, oh you know, and then there's the BAHA, you won't see much of those when you're out in the you know school setting so we'll talk about it a little bit.
D: [LAUGH] Who said that?!
J: You know and I'm like I literally...
D: I know and then you get out there and there's BAHA's everywhere.
J: Right? Oh I every year I've had students with with BAHAs and it's funny because where I'm working now my students have a lot of them are just pushed in the mainstream so they don't have a lot of friends that have hearing loss and so we read the book together. That's the first thing we talked about about me, you know and one of the questions was what's your favorite book? And so I said of course mine you know. [LAUGH]
D: A little biased but my favorite.
J: A little biased you know.
D: Rightly so, rightly so.
J: Ah you know a little bit I had to do a little plugin. And so they kept asking to read it I'm like ok when we have time, when we have time. So finally we had time and one of my students who never really talks is like ah there's me! There's me!
D: That's so sweet.
J: And so I, I know it just made my heart melt. And one of my students was like well how come I have to wear hearing aids and I'm the only one in my family and how come I don't get to be in a class like in your book. So like we got to really start to have conversations that these kids have never had before so that was like a lot of fun. And also a little bit sad.
D: I always have that too because I only really work with kids who are in the mainstream for the most part we have like ah we do have like a continuum like a program. Ah, for you know, a teacher the deaf and a child a class of children with hearing loss. But that's that's not my job like I'm in the mainstream.
J: Right.
D: So I am often am in that situation where they're the only kid with hearing loss either in their class or sometimes in the building even and I always want to give them like peer role models or adult role models and it's like okay if there's none available um in person like I think going through media whether it be books or shows or whatever is kind of the next best option. Obviously you try your best to arrange real life role models when you can. But I love that we have more and more options now for books for showing more pictures and it's not just like one book, there's options.
J: Yes!
D: Is there a reason you decided to pick a girl with a BAHA as the main character?
J: My babies with microtia they used to break my heart because oftentimes when you know most of my work in the deaf field was in a self-contained pre-k classroom. So you know I had my classroom literally looked like the class in my book. And but my babies with microtia often had the longer hair to cover their microtia ears. And they felt kind of embarrassed by it so I wanted them to feel empowered.
D: Yeah.
J: And when we found out about microtia awareness day we would do like whole ear day. We'd make elephant ears like, ears of corn and just do ear activities. Um that were fun um on a Pre-k level but I wanted to highlight that in the book for them.
D: Yeah, that makes sense did you have when you are working with those kids any like strategies or tips that you could share about like building up their self-esteem like in addition to like those fun events or other self advocacy skills that you think are specifically important to kids with Microtia?
J: I did, talking with parents and families a lot as well because a lot of the times how as parents our fears and our concerns kind of will rub off on our kids, so making sure those kids wear their equipment in their picture days, not being afraid to show it off and mention it and not trying to hide it and talking about it and having conversations around it and recognizing feelings because those feelings are going to change as kids go through different stages of development. They're going to change. But I will tell you after ear day, all of my kids wanted microtia [LAUGH] So like I cannot create that for you. But you know, we have the power with our words in how we affirm ourselves but also as adults to continue that with our our kids and our students so constantly kind of putting that out there and then of course books. [LAUGH]
D: I had ah a situation once where a family had ah you know a child who was wearing a Ponto or a BAHA and they were just like kinda struggling with it a little bit like how to make it look cute like they just they were struggling with the concept of their child needing to wear a hearing device which is very understandable. A lot of parents go through that kind of like process. So I had another child on my caseload, another little girl, so and she her mom always did the cutest hairstyles like little pigtails, little half up half down and like incorporated the headband of the BAHA in like very cute ways. So I asked her one day I was like can I just take a picture of her hair because she looks so cute today and I want to show this other family and she was like yeah yeah of course so I took a picture and I showed it to them at the next time I saw them and oh my god the turnaround that one little picture had for them like they were like oh my gosh. She's so cute like seeing a different kid with the same thing, like all they saw was how cute that kid was like that didn't even phase them. They were wearing a headband with a Ponto on it. So the next time I saw them the little girl had her hair just like in the picture and they were like look how cute like I was like oh my god like I can't believe that's all it took like I was like I like months I've been trying to help them and like all like that seeing it on someone else who was rocking it and like was happy and like that that was all it took so I feel like oh my god...
J: Representation matters like I can't I cannot say it loud enough representation matters. You know so it yeah ah that just makes gives me all the feels.
D: I know. Did you, can you tell me more about the activities you do you did for ear day in case people want to try them? So like what did you do with like the corn or with the elephant did it have to do with like having a little ear like that sort of thing?
J: Now anything that had the word ear in it. We were making and so the it's like a little pastry elephant ears and I would get the pastry dough. So the kids got the opportunity to make it and because some came out smaller than others when we would bake it. You know that's.
D: Ah I didn't know it was a pastry. I thought it was like an a literal elephant I'm like oh tell me about these elephants. [LAUGH]
J: No Um I cooked a lot in my classroom I had like a little toaster oven so we would bake it up all the time. But no and then I would also make ears of corn out of Kix the cereal.
D: Yeah.
J: And had like green napkins to tie it around to make it look like the leaf that we'd put in a bag and again they'd end up looking different sizes based on how much Kix the kids wanted to put in it and again we talk about the different sizes and how the size does not impact quality and how it's still yours and it's still valuable.
D: Cute I like that messaging I feel like that's really helpful because like the crafts naturally will all come out different and it like really lends itself well to that conversation.
J: And they taste good.
D: And they taste good with a positive association. I've seen and a lot of parents like they've told me like when they join parent groups and stuff, there's a lot of like Finding Nemo imagery also they find helpful because Nemo has like the little fin, so it's like their microtia fin like their little ear like you know and I was I thought that was so cute when I first heard it I was like oh what like a positive spin on it like I never, I when I heard it I was like oh duh that makes so much sense. But like sometimes I tell parents that sometimes that's the thing that it's like oh I never thought anything of Nemo having a little fin like I never thought Nemo was anything less because he had a little fin, I know he's an imaginary fish but like still like no negative association at all with Nemo like why like why can't I carry that energy forward.
J: Exactly.
D: And I think you're right that it starts with the parents like if you can get the parents on board sometimes that does half your work with the kid.
J: It does and parents usually, it's not that they, that they don't like it, it's their fear of how the child's going to be received and or perceived out in public and in trying to peel that away, you know, and being able to support them through that process because it's a lot for a parent. You're always afraid to send your kid out into the world. So when you know that your kid looks different. You already know they're going to face unnecessary obstacles. So I get it.
D: Yeah.
J: But when we can break down that wall in that barrier that also helps too and then their rockin' hairdos with their with their headbands.
Both: [LAUGH]
D: Right? Yeah, so circling back to the first Billy BAHA book, when TODs, I was telling Jessica earlier like I use the books all the time with my students because I love them and I think they're great and I love using books with you know representation in them, but when TODs like read your book with their students like what kind of skills do you think it lends itself to? Like what can we focus on? Do you have any suggestions as a person who created it on how we can use it as a teaching tool?
J: I literally could have a whole separate podcast on that alone. [LAUGH]
D: Take me through it, I got time!
J: With the first one, you know instantly I threw that in there how we talk about stopping somebody when you don't understand what they're saying when you notice somebody is talking and how to you know mitigate that situation telling somebody to stop, you know assessing the situation. Why can I not hear? You know in Billie's circumstance it's because she wasn't wearing her BAHAs. But could it be that your batteries are dead? Is there too much background noise? Is it that the speaker is too far away? They're not facing you and you need a visual model. You know, there are a plethora of problems that could be stopping that communication from happening and being able to assess that is a huge step to me that as Teachers of the Deaf that we should be working on for our students is being able to assess what those problems are those communication problems. So that way the kids can learn how to mitigate them also and solve their own problems because we can't be there all the time, especially those that are out in the mainstream. And that's just like the first page.
D: Yeah.
Both: [LAUGH]
D: It's always nice to have examples of like kids are realizing that they can't hear because that's such a hard thing to teach, like how to know what you don't know or how to know that you didn't hear something like how to identify that kind of breakdown has occurred so I feel like examples like that are super helpful.
J: Exactly and that's one of the things that I teach my students now if you see somebody's mouth moving and nothing is coming in your brain, that's like key and indicator one. You know if you see people around you moving and you didn't hear anything that's another indicator you missed information. And instead of trying to figure out and piecemeal it all together just stop and ask somebody to repeat it. And that's such a hard thing to do to do and to teach. But I also like try to to show them and teach them that listen everybody has to advocate for their needs whether it's I need to go to the bathroom and need to drink a water you know, so they have to do the same there just might be a little bit different sometimes and then of course throughout the rest of the book, there's Miss Jessica checking for their listening equipment doing their listening checks in the morning. One of the things that I used to teach even like my 3 year old babies was how to like check the functionality of their batteries, every morning we would do the listening check with each of their equipment's one at a time and assess you know whether or not they're working with them. Not just you know as individual pieces and having that in the book.
So teaching that strategy is important I wanted to put that in there and then of course I wanted to teach about like the varying exceptionalities and we all know that 40% of kids with a hearing loss usually have something else going on with them so throwing that mix in there with all of our other friends I thought was like a huge topic to be able to touch on. And I didn't try to delve too much in it because I wanted teachers to people kind of play around with that and be able to explore that in the best way that they felt that they could as well as obviously like you said like the different amplification styles as well and then we also have the different languages. And then also different religions. So throw on all of them that in the mix because honestly, that's literally how my class looked. Ah.
D: Yeah I know I've seen it too, it's especially because when you're when you're itinerant at least for me like I'm itinerant in like far enough places that like I go to a lot of different towns. You know what I mean like a lot of different socioeconomic levels like in one day a lot of different like some urban some rural like New Jersey is very dense. So like you can go to a lot of different places without covering a lot of distance. So I really feel like you see the whole thing and it's nice to be able to like it's like that windows mirror thing like you want people to see themselves. But you also want them to know ah other people different from them exist and then that's valuable also.
J: Well and it's funny because and why I wanted to try to include everybody as much as possible too, every year I would always have a Muslim kid by class. Um and they would not be able to eat like the pepperoni on the pizza and the cafeteria and so my kids would always hear like oh why can't such as such have the pepperonis or you know, um, whatever pork product was like available in the cafeteria. And so we'd always circle back to that whole conversation and start explaining it and of course we would celebrate different holidays in my class too because that I just love doing that with them anyway because I just teach us so much language. But so we'd always have to have like that explanation and stuff. So I wanted to make sure that I tucked all that stuff up in there as best as possible.
D: Yeah, and I kind of feel like especially as kids get older too just like when you have, it's something that's easier to talk about self-advocacy and like self-esteem when you separate it from disability like a little bit like everybody has things about them that they like that they don't like that there are strengths that are weaknesses that make them them and then make them part of their community like everybody has like those attributes to them and sometimes it's easier to talk about that with other people when when there are differences to discuss because then you can point it out like oh like that person speaks these languages and celebrates these holidays and is really friendly and outgoing and I you know speak this language and use a hearing aid and like to read and like all of those things are attributes and none of them are given any more particular weight than any other one. It's just part of who I am.
J: It is what it is yeah.
D: It's like not everyone has um, a hearing loss and not everybody has you know such like I don't know like clear differences but everyone does have differences. So like when you are have a more diverse group or a more diverse group depicted in media, it's easier to talk about that and just fold hearing loss into one of those things as opposed to it being the only thing because especially for our kids that are mainstreamed. They have so much going on. They have so many other interests and other parts of their life and I have found it, they're more likely to accept their hearing loss as part of who they are if we kind of treat it that way as just like this is one of those things you know like just part of who you are.
J: Yep I'm left handed like you know it just is who you are like you said. Well and it's also funny too because what a lot of my kids even you know on the younger level started recognizing and realizing was while there was so much difference they were still so much alike.
D: Yeah.
J: So one year we were celebrating Eid in my classroom which is um, a Muslim holiday and I like obviously break it down in like the simplest terms without trying to get too religious. And one of my students was like well am I Muslim because I do something like that. [LAUGH]
D: They're so cute, oh my gosh. [LAUGH]
J: Um, and and I like no like your family is what they are. You're Christian you know and so what we ended up doing was celebrating Eid as like a classroom I always had really supportive parents too. But they they knew and they would always come in for a lot of our celebrations and so too but we ended up celebrating Eid by using the Christian kids, um they were supporting so a family in another country right um, as part of something through their church but we ended up using that family to celebrate Eid and like just come like combining it all together and like all the kids are like raiding like their piggy banks and stuff to like bring in money um to send over and it was just like such a cool thing because again it was just, they're also different and yet we're all the same because ultimately we want to like celebrate you know and share with one another and we're just we're just people.
D: Yeah I love that that's so sweet.
J: I know. [LAUGH]
D: Alright, so moving on to the Billie BAHA book 2 which is relatively new.
J: Yes, it is and that one is about them going to the movies.
D: Yes, when I read that I was like yes finally I need more stuff about the community because it is not the easiest thing to teach about but very important.
J: Well, it's funny you say that. So I would take my students on field trips at least I'm probably like once a month and honestly going to the movies was one of the things that we would do.
D: Yeah.
J: So um and it's important for that reason to get out in the community and learn about your rights how to know how to navigate spaces utilizing your equipment and and being able to advocate for your needs.
D: Yeah, yeah, and just like for anyone who hasn't um, gotten the second book yet. Just basically they go out to the movies on like a field trip and they have to like advocate with like a cashier to make sure they understand them and then one of the kids loses a hearing device and then they use that, the name of it escapes me, that captioning device.
J: The closed caption.
D: You know like goes, yeah that goes in the cup holder and it's like a little screen and they can watch the captions of the movie and like some of my kids don't even know that exists like big kids! It's like you know because their parents don't know they exist. They never thought to advocate for it. Especially you know the kids maybe who have used um, hearing devices their whole lives and just rely on their listening and just never thought to to use accommodations in like a public space. But it's so helpful to just like show them like look at this isn't this cool you could use this if you want they have them at the movie theater like how, where would you have to go to get one of these is like it was it was it. It opened up a lot of really good conversations about what accommodations are available out in the community and I use it with bigger kids like I know it's like a preschool class that's depicted but it doesn't, it's not a babyish book at all like it's written high enough that I use it with my older like elementary school kids. And you get a lot out of it about what it looks like to advocate outside of school.
J: Well thank you for that.
Both: [LAUGH]
D: Sorry alright I just like went on a tirade about how much I like your book.
J: No I listen I.
D: I just used it yesterday. That's why it's like really fresh in my mind and I actually like I we schedule these interviews so far in advance I like didn't do that on purpose I just like I just happened to read it yesterday with a kid.
J: No, it listen that is like perfect because trying to find the balance of where those needs are in between you know we always want to like overload those kids and those families young young young young young so that way they're set up because you know there's less support when they get older so you know you being able to be out there and still utilize those materials is is awesome too. So no I appreciate that. It's an excellent commercial. [LAUGH]
D: Yeah, especially because like as an itinerant I can't take my kids on field trips. That's like not accessible to me so like to have a book do it like really is helpful.
Both: [LAUGH]
J: Well, there's actually more to come so... [LAUGH].
D: Exciting!!
J: But yeah, no, and and it's so important because we would go on trips, like I said my kids had to bring cash so they could interact with the cashier and get their needs met and again same as like that first book knowing how to troubleshoot like those breakdowns and those communications with laypeople that they don't know and that is nerve wrecking for little people.
D: Mhmm.
J: It's nerve wrecking for anybody you know, but in particular those little people and they like would kill it like a boss
D: [LAUGH]
J: So they're like I want my popcorn you know so like, okay can we throw in a please?
Both: [LAUGH]
D: Let's work on some pragmatic skills perhaps. Are there any other like out in the community self-advocacy skills you would focus on besides like the close caption at the movie theater but like at other community things where there are other accommodations that you found helpful to like prepare them that they were going to have to ask for?
J: Yes and using, knowing how to use the roger mic and the conference setting. We would go out to eat, and sit at a booth together. So the kids learning how to use that in an environment together where we're all talking and sharing, sitting in a close setting but still having background and like background noise going on and knowing how to try to isolate and focus on like the speakers at your table has been something that we have worked on and used. Knowing how to prevent losing equipment when we go out.
D: Yup.
J: Has been a thing that we work on because I worked mostly like I said when we would go on field trips with the littles. So we would go to places that had water play. So that's always exciting and fun when you have...
D: Yeah that was daring of you.
J: ...tens of thousands of dollars of equipment strapped to your head, but we never lost anything or even came close to it because again we practiced before we would even leave and learning about before we went what we're going to be kind of up against and how to strategize and plan before we left. And I'm trying to think of other things.
D: Yeah, with some of my older children who have different programs on their hearing aids just making sure they're aware of the different programs and what they're for like.
J: Oh most definitely.
D: Like some kids have like a wind program for being outside some have like background noise programs for like the lunchroom or like the mall or like places like that. And I've heard like mixed reviews basically of the programs like some kids are like, I don't like that it dulls the sound because then I can't hear my friends as well or they’re like, oh I really I really like the wind one but not the background noise one. So like just being able to like articulate that and that there are different programs and that there's different times to use them I think it's like a helpful thing to go over before you go out and about.
J: No, and that is huge and it's funny you say that because with the younger kids we tell them don't touch your programs.
D: Yeah, well, they're disabled. Like the the button is disabled I mean like um, not the children!
J: I knew what you meant, I knew and is that yes, yes, ah.
Both: [LAUGH]
D: So I guess like feel like I had to correct myself. Ah the button doesn't work. Um, but yeah as I get older just being able once it is enabled you want to make sure they're using it correctly.
J: Yeah, that's actually excellent and one of the things actually for the older kids too is as they transition, teaching them how to go to their next schools and how to acclimate around their schools and know what services are already on their campus. And for those transitioning to college, knowing what services are provided already on campus and how to access the whatever college they go to they all call them different things but basically the special ed department that's on campus.
D: Yeah, we have a whole, our actually our first episode ever is all about college transition, if anyone's interested. If you feel like ah listening to more information about that. Go back to episode one.
Both: [LAUGH]
D: It was real far in the beginning. So... Yeah I even feel like just while they're in school like I find it really helpful for them to know what my name is and what my role is, what the speech therapist name is and what her role is, who the educational audiologist is and what her role is. I am not a speech therapist and neither is the educational audiologist like we're not all speech therapists. [LAUGH] And like why we're there and how we each individually can help them. Like if you're having a problem obviously you can go to any of us. But like why am I here versus why is speech here versus why is educational audiology here I feel like it's really helpful because then if as they get older. They can explain what specific problem they're having and who the best person to ask for help is.
J: Well, it's funny you say that because I didn't ever know that was a thing until I started working with older kids.
D: Mhmm.
J: Um, because I had innately started teaching the babies that by taking them to the audiologist was literally right next door to us the booth and everything so we were over there all the time getting equipment checked. So of course we're giving language right? So we were teaching all of that stuff anyway and it wasn't until I started working with the older kids that weren't going to the audiologist as often and, you know they were mainstreamed and I was like oh you don't know the difference between me and them? So that's like a good point, yeah.
D: Yeah, and as they get older I always make sure they know who their clinical audiologist is like, I mean they should they should know who their educational audiologist is also if they have one but they don't have to necessarily be able to reach them. zlike they can just reach me and I can reach them. But their clinical audiologists they should know because when they turn 18 theoretically it's on them to make that next appointment. I know most people's parents apoint them past eighteen but not everybody and they really need to have that written down somewhere that they can find it again because, or at least know what when they need to know kind of like what insurance they have and what audiologists they go to and like that's scary to have to like talk about that with somebody but like just knowing that like you need you need access to this in order to continue to listen for a lot of these kids and so therefore like you have to be able to maintain this equipment in adulthood. So let's get that figured out now. [LAUGH]
J: No, that's actually very valid and I never thought about that. Thank you like phew.
D: Yeah, and I learned to some people like I always say like they need to know the name of their audiologist because where I live you have like one, ah you have an audiologist that's like your audiologist but in a lot of other places they have like a clinic so you just have to know your clinic. You don't have to know the name of a doctor you just have to know where you go. So I feel like as long as they can name that they're like they can get to where they need to go.
J: They can get to the right direction, yeah.
D: You could Google it and get there you know. But that's like a big, a big part of self-advocacy as they get older is just being able to access the community resources that they need and even though your book is about younger kids you start it then.
J: Yes!
D: And then they grow up and it evolves into who is your audiologist and how do you contact them like.
J: No, yes! And it's funny that you say that too in in reference to contacting and I know cell phones have evolved is so much but one of the other things that we worked on in schools too was learning about how to get like the free flashing smoke detectors and all the safety equipment in their homes as well, and teaching the parents how to get in contact with the departments in order to get that set up for them. So that was also something that a lot of the kids and the families didn't know about, just so that they could be safe in their homes not just out in the communities too.
D: Yeah, and if you're looking for resources about this especially for kids um transitioning out of high school I, we've talked about this briefly on the podcast before but if you look into your states like vocational rehabilitation center, like most states have one. It's like a government. It's like a state program, the vocational rehabilitation. That's what it's called like at least New Jersey we have a, like a deaf and hard of hearing department within that. So like they'll specialize in like getting resources and like connecting people to things that they need. Things like that you know and like also accommodations in the community like sometimes I think they're more relevant to kids who are going straight into the workforce as opposed to going to college. However, people going to college can also benefit from those resources sometimes too. So if you're feeling overwhelmed with not knowing where to start with that if you Google like your state vocational rehabilitation deaf and hard of hearing you'll find something.
Both: [LAUGH]
J: Yes, you will.
Both: [LAUGH]
D: And even if you like just find a flyer with information sometimes that'll point you in the right direction of who to talk to.
J: Yeah.
D: Okay, awesome I feel like there's a lot of good bits and pieces in this episode already so far. But are there any other like resources or links or anything that you want to share?
J: Oh yes I have started a Youtube channel.
D: Oh fun!
J: A kid's Youtube channel. It is with my husband and my daughters and it is utilizing the characters from the book.
D: Nice.
J: And they are singing kids songs and some of them are signed, some are in English and Spanish, so definitely check it out. It's Youtube slash Billy BAHA. Definitely subscribe, like, and share, so we can keep making more content so that way we also have representation for young, educational content.
D: Yeah, absolutely. I'll link the Youtube channel, I'll link the books on Amazon. Do you have an estimated idea of when you think the third one will be out yet or not yet?
J: Not yet I just got like the copyright back.
D: Got it. I'm excited for that one to come out so I'll link everywhere down below. So all that will be linked. Transcript will be linked.
J: Thank you so much for having me I enjoyed it.
D: Of course, I'll talk to everyone next week. Have a good day. Bye!
J: Bye bye!
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